Nano reef 180l

[gebrooker-reef]

Apparently, by "bending" you mean completely disregarding a fish's well-being and accepting any reasoning that aligns to your own wishes and desires...

Good bye.

Me calling out this post is not ok to put down like this is you calling my post hateful. Wow.

I think you should look at the behavior of a fish to see if it's happy or not. Not all tanks that are the same size have the same scape and with fishes also they are different.

Besides who do you think is able to tell that a certain fish should be placed in 20 or 40 gallon?

If I follow you reasoning you are never going to a zoo in the Netherlands because of all the animals and reef tanks are way to small to house them. For example the sharks in the zoo's the tanks are no match to the miles these animals travel in the wild.

Grt Marco

 

[Bas81]

Me calling out this post is not ok to put down like this is you calling my post hateful. Wow.

I think you should look at the behavior of a fish to see if it's happy or not. Not all tanks that are the same size have the same scape and with fishes also they are different.

Besides who do you think is able to tell that a certain fish should be placed in 20 or 40 gallon?

If I follow you reasoning you are never going to a zoo in the Netherlands because of all the animals and reef tanks are way to small to house them. For example the sharks in the zoo's the tanks are no match to the miles these animals travel in the wild.

Grt Marco

Well, if you ask advice sometimes you will get an answer you might not like.

I was pretty nice I think, but some people are more direct. But they mean well.

Hateful I also found a bit too much. But it comes from someone who knows what he is doing.

 

[Erbe2307]

Me calling out this post is not ok to put down like this is you calling my post hateful. Wow.

If you don't mean it, then don't use the word hate. It's a rather strong and offensive word.
And yes, as you noticed, I did take offence.

I think you should look at the behavior of a fish to see if it's happy or not. Not all tanks that are the same size have the same scape and with fishes also they are different.

Yes, a 15cm fish that is used to swim a lot, even though it may not swim very fast needs its space.
This is a tiny tank with a big (large growing) fish and a lot of scape.

Besides who do you think is able to tell that a certain fish should be placed in 20 or 40 gallon?

We as a community do. If you can put forward valid arguments why 60 by 45cm is plenty of space to properly house a butterfly fish long term, then give them and we can discuss. Don't start putting away opinions as "hating".

If I follow you reasoning you are never going to a zoo in the Netherlands because of all the animals and reef tanks are way to small to house them. For example the sharks in the zoo's the tanks are no match to the miles these animals travel in the wild.

Views of what is acceptable change. A few decades ago it was perfectly normal to flick a whip at a lion in front of an audience and make it jump trough a hoop...

Oke, lets do the math. A 3 meter shark in a 1 million liter tank has way more room to do its thing than an butterfly fish in a 0,000125 million liter tank. 3333 liter per cm of shark versus 8,3 L/cm of fish to be precise. So that's about 400 times as much. Even if the shark was housed in a "tiny" 100.000 L tank, it would still have 40 times as much space.
This copperband's home is like housing a 3 meter shark in a tank of about 3 by 1 by 0,8 meter (2400 liters).

So, your reasoning conflicts itself. Also, it is based on a fallacy. Namely, all or nothing reasoning. If you cannot meet all the needs of an animal, then its not necessary to meet any.


Lastly, if the topic starter finds my reactions offensive or inappropriate he/she may say so.
I will reply cordially.

 

[gebrooker-reef]

I only made a comment that you can react on a post in a more friendly way. Look what happened. I think that is part of the problem of a forum. When you meet a person in real life you would't react in this way and if you do most people would consider you to be an asshole. For me is a forum a place where people can change information and opinions in a respectful way. Here meet all kind of reefers some more experienced and others compleet beginners and if most reactions are so strong there are a lot of people who leave the forum and I find that pitty. On foreign forums you see that a lot less.

I also think that that the tank is to small for the fish longterm but as the fish shows no signs of stress or discomfort it's better than most people here on the forum that have the fish in a lager tank and most of them die before the age of 2.

You can give your opinion and advice but you should't judge people (Apparently, by "bending" you mean completely disregarding a fish's well-being and accepting any reasoning that aligns to your own wishes and desires...)

This is the reaction from the topicstarter:

This is an unfair statement.

The fish is actually doing considerably better than at the fish store. He was housed in a big coral flat, with tangs and other aggresive feeders. He was eating only live artemia and only very little, because the food was quickly dispersed and getting eaten by others (I witnessed this because I asked for the fish to be fed). He was also skinny - I could see his spine.

I think you also saw Copperbands at the fish store and you would agree that most of them are in a bad shape. At least that's my experience after 6 months of visiting different fish stores in NL.

After 1 month in my care, the fish is now eating 3 types of frozen foods and not only that, but he's also aggresively attacking the food. I also feed him by hand at least once a day. He has visibly gained weight, he is now bulky instead of skinny. I also soak the food in 2 types of vitamins before feeding.

We cannot know what fish feel, we can only observe their behaviour. After 15+ years of keeping all sorts of fish, I think I can say when a fish is not doing well. This fish is active, alert and personable - he comes to the front of the glass when he sees me etc. By all markers, he's a happy fish.

And of course the plan was never to keep him in this tank long term.

So that's why I think your statement is unfair, to say the least.

You don't react on this post at all you do is only judge and if there comes a reaction on your post the dialogue from your side stops. I think this is an opportunity for you to share your wisdom and explain why the topic starter is wrong. Most people could learn from this and better understand why is something wrong to do and what to do instead.

When you keep up with this you have a lot to do here on the forum commenting on people who buy a clam it died buy another one again it dies same with coral. Where do you set the line is it if you lose 1 coral or 2 or more before you should't buy any corals and must leave the hobby.

Instead you can use your knowledge and give people advice and ways to do things different so they can be succesful. If you do this in a more friendly way people intend to listen better. Same with training a dog. When you reward good behaviour you come further than punish bad behaviour. Love and kindness comes a further than hate and war.

Sorry for the long post and excuse me for my bad English.

Grt Marco

 

[liviumac]

More than 1 year has passed since the last update.
I lost interest in updating this journal due to the very inappropriate reactions that this topic has received from some people.

But since this aquarium will be dismantled soon (new one is coming) I thought I do a final update.

Copperband is not doing well - he is doing great. Since August 2022, he also has a friend - look closely. His friend is also doing great.

So I think all further discussions are superfluous.

Of course, I do not recommend that people do what I did.

However, I do think that it is interesting to know what can be done in this hobby - that is, interesting for people who do not have their heads up their a*ses.

Will open a new diary soon.